nailbat.us

With all our mains (except for Khai) last night, we rushed through ToC25 in about 50 minutes. What if we start ToC25 at Thursday 7pm? I wonder how many people cannot make it? I haven't really been seeing ~25 online on a non-Tue/Thu night.

sticking to my guns here: Tues/thrs being the days of most attendance (and the only day some of our less active members raid) means we should keep Thursday as a gearing run.
Tuesday progression, Thursday gearing. Remember?
Pushing for 2 nights of progression raiding will lead to quicker results but will burn out people faster. My run yesterday saw tempers flaring at the first wipe.

Yes, ICC is big. and it will get bigger. We won't be able to clear it in one night.
But that's why blizzard gave us the raid extentions .

PS. TOC25 this week was very valuable. A lot of the gear found a home, meaning they upgraded our guild performance as a whole.
PPS. TOC25 will soon be obsolete as a gearing run. at which point we can cross it off. But until such a time, it needs to remain the first thing we do on a Thursday: at 8PM. It took exactly 45 mins total (look at the logs).

The problem is, there were also tempers that flared when people spent two days taking lessons from IC25 and bringing them into IC10, then they logged on at raid time and were yanked into a ToC25 that they hadn't agreed to. I personally believe that we get a lot of value out of the IC25/IC10 raiding schedule, where we can test out strategies we cook up after 25-man on slightly less strenuous 10-man fights, and bring those lessons into 25 for the next week (see: Rotface/Festergut down for two groups yesterday, who can translate those lessons into 25 next Tuesday).

The gear was valuable, definitely, but I think there could be a better time for people to block off a 45-minute time period, especially for those of us who live ahead of raid time or have to go to work early in the morning. I personally lose sleep every raid night, but I don't expect or demand the same out of others.

As for tempers flaring after the first wipe, I would like to remind people that we need to keep it calm and friendly on Vent because that's a huge factor in what makes the raiding experience enjoyable or unenjoyable. Getting angry will not help nearly as much as picking up the pieces and saying "okay, this is what happened and how it went wrong, and this is how we're going to fix it."

After thinking about this some more, I see another dimension that can, did, and will continue to cause problems: starting up a 25man raid, then breaking it up into two 10 mans and benching 5 players... especially following a 'draft'. As fun as it may be for the people who go, it is a severe moral blow for those who don't. Bottom line, it's unfair.

Conclusion: I'm onboard with cutting the TOC25 runs. And I appologize to the raiders that were forced into yesterday's run against their will. Hopefully you will forgive me, as I only came up with this for the sake of the guild. I also appologize to the raiders that were benched last night. I owe you all a run of your choice.

However, for the sake of improving the guild, and following Dom's mentality outline above, I will consider ICC10 runs to be dedicated for gearing purposes. These runs will not be focused on clearing the newest wing, and so will take it slower, favoring characters with lower gear scores. While I say we will not focus on clearing the new wings, I fully expect us to farm the existing content and get raid experience wiping on the bleeding edge of progression.

I would like to offer up my two tanks for a 3rd icc10 sometimes between now and the raid reset for those who might have been benched. Both of my tanks have some experience in OT'ing through Saurfang Jr. with Tex and Wulf.

Regarding cake, and when you can eat it:

We never actually threatened anyone with any negative consequences for not wanting to do ToC25. We did say that it benefits other guildies, and if we need to expand on that, it helps guildies in ways that makes the other raids more successful, and easier. Other raids that people do want to go to. And that's why we do it, for the sake of the group.

And yes, we know that getting benched is 'unfair', but we've been through this in more dramatic fashion in the past. And as we've explained then too, we can make it fair by speaking up- if you really want in, say so. If you only came for ICC but went for ToC anyway, say so. People do volunteer to give up their spot, often. And when that's not enough, we ask people to give up their spot. And if that's still not enough, we let the ultimate impartial arbiter decide, and the dice will give up a spot. For someone who speaks up.

It is by these two factors of doing runs for people who need it, and then getting people in on runs that they want, that we operate as a guild and have remarkable success.

I again emphasize that I don't find anything wrong with the existence of ToC25 runs. However, I don't believe that Thursdays are the right time to do it due to our limited time frame. There are plenty of other nights we can use to knock out a 45-minute instance, and I would like to ask the guild members involved what the best time would be, so I'll be spending some time in-game asking questions (when I'm not moving furniture) and trying to work out a schedule that everyone can enjoy.