Current loot rules

[Reiss]

All this eligibility bullshit is pointless,
<- Bosar btw, who didn't get any loot this week.

Pointless until someone else wins 4-5 things in a week because you lost the rolls, then suddenly it'll be 'unfair'.
We do, in fact, have these Guild Loot Rules for a reason.
They are not pointless, they are not bullshit.

I agree with Daewen this time. Eligibility is not pointless. The minimum base line for eligibility should be mains over alts, and main spec over alt spec.

I may have misspoke (mistyped?) there, I'm not saying that people should be rolling on offspec gear over main specs, or that alts should be taking gear from mains. I'm just talking about restricting loot based on number of items won.

[hung]

i move that we dispense with master looter.

[Camyu]

I may have misspoke (mistyped?) there, I'm not saying that people should be rolling on offspec gear over main specs, or that alts should be taking gear from mains. I'm just talking about restricting loot based on number of items won.

I know. And I was just stating that eligibility is not pointless because the main/alt, main/off thing should be the bare minimum of eligibility. And we're already good about that.

I was also saying that for normal loot we should probably just roll based on need, but for the precious tier pieces, we should probably treat them a little differently to avoid friction or to prevent people from feeling they should save their rolls. Plus we're not at a point where people can only upgrade from tier pieces, so I think this can probably stay for a while and we adjust later accordingly.

[Reiss]

I may have misspoke (mistyped?) there, I'm not saying that people should be rolling on offspec gear over main specs, or that alts should be taking gear from mains. I'm just talking about restricting loot based on number of items won.

I know. And I was just stating that eligibility is not pointless because the main/alt, main/off thing should be the bare minimum of eligibility. And we're already good about that.

I was also saying that for normal loot we should probably just roll based on need, but for the precious tier pieces, we should probably treat them a little differently to avoid friction or to prevent people from feeling they should save their rolls. Plus we're not at a point where people can only upgrade from tier pieces, so I think this can probably stay for a while and we adjust later accordingly.

I'm not sure I see a compelling argument for treating tier tokens differently than any other piece of loot, especially since tier tokens are a guaranteed drop from the bosses that will drop them. We will always get the tokens if we kill those bosses.

[Camyu]

I'm not sure I see a compelling argument for treating tier tokens differently than any other piece of loot, especially since tier tokens are a guaranteed drop from the bosses that will drop them. We will always get the tokens if we kill those bosses.

That was just a suggestion because I think there are others who see tier pieces differently than other loot, which is why there was the discussion about people saving rolls for tier. Or my guess is you meant tier should also just be free rolls for everyone...?

[Reiss]

Or my guess is you meant tier should also just be free rolls for everyone...?

this.

[Pocky]

The rules were devised originally because we had gotten to the point where we were doing Naxx-25 a fair amount, and we wanted to spread the wealth. It wasn't because any one person was getting all of the loot (I certainly had my fair share of gear from Naxx-25) or because we wanted to make sure that any one person was able to get tier gear or anything like that. Admittedly, 10-man runs weren't explicitly considered when these rules were made, but it seems like some people were using these rules for their 10-man runs.

One of the big problems that these rules were meant to help with was the fact that there have been times where people weren't able to get anything for over a month because the bosses/raid instance did not drop anything they could use during the times they came. As unlikely as it is, it has happened to a fair number of more often than not. For example, the long dry spell of tanking gear in Ulduar - I think this week is the first in a month or so since any has dropped, since the shield that one time. Other times, there have been people who have helped with runs to gear other people up, people who hoped that the one or two upgrades left in the instance would drop for them. Would it be fair for a person who just got four pieces of gear to roll on that one drop? I don't think so, but there are people who think it would be. This may not happen often, but it still does happen.

I created this system (with input from a fair number of people) so that everyone would be able to get at least something from the raid if they came (the 1 per person idea). I know it's not perfect, but I feel it is more fair than just relying on the RNG.

I never meant for this to cause so many issues for people. It was supposed to help.

[Daewen]

Or my guess is you meant tier should also just be free rolls for everyone...?

this.

So you want to be able to roll on upgrades, and for tier too. That's cake, and eating it too.

Look, we already went through all this before when we setup the loot rules, and again when other people complained about the same thing as you: not wanting to have to "save" your rolls in order to get the "bigger" upgrades later. Third time's a charm?

If you get an upgrade, tier or not, you get an upgrade. Next time, next raid, you don't need that upgrade, you pass, you roll on the tier. Simple as that. In the long run, the dice work out and everybody has everything.

Wanting to get it all now, instant gratification, in any single run you're in, is loot whoring. Stop it.

[Pocky]

I'm also not quite sure what you mean when you say that the rules aren't necessary for me, but are necessary for other people... The rules are either necessary, or they're not (hint: they're not). Now, some people may believe that they are necessary because they put too much importance on recieving loot, and get bent out of shape if they don't get a shiny new piece of equipment every single week, or they just don't understand that the items will drop again.

I will admit that I do put a fair amount of importance on receiving loot, but not for myself - I've gotten one whole on-spec item (and I got a nice off-spec hammer, too) from Ulduar so far, and it doesn't bother me.

My concern is that EVERYONE gets something, as often as possible. Maybe I'm stupid in worrying about that, but I do. I've seen too many people's feelings get hurt (here and in other guilds over the years) because they haven't gotten anything in a while, and I don't like to see my friends' feelings being hurt.

Again, while it's true that the chance is there that any given item can and will drop again, the question is when. We've had people who didn't win the roll on an upgrade, and then it didn't appear again for three months. That's a fairly long time to have to wait and then potentially lose.

[Reiss]

Again, while it's true that the chance is there that any given item can and will drop again, the question is when. We've had people who didn't win the roll on an upgrade, and then it didn't appear again for three months. That's a fairly long time to have to wait and then potentially lose.

And how does locking people out of rolling on an upgrade remedy this sort of situation?

Free roll situation: 3 people need an item, 3 people roll, one of them wins, 2 people still need that item.

Loot limit situation: 3 people need an item, one is ineligible, 2 people roll, one wins, 2 people still need that item.