Current loot rules

[janin]

So, I just realized that I assumed we were doing daily loot eligibility rather than weekly without actually checking. Should I have not rolled on the tier gloves last night because I got gear on Tuesday? If so, sorry!

We got quite informal with loot prior to the Ulduar patch. Maybe we should go back to a spreadsheet or a loot tracking addon.

Adam

[Daewen]

Weeelll, yours was an honest mistake it sounds like. We did the spreadsheet before when we wanted to be sure we were tracking stuff, but remember that the person(s) responsible for that got bogged down in handling it and it slowed down raids. So, we started doing tracking by honor system (and friendly reminders), where people should pass for having already gotten something. You forgot, nobody else caught it, sounds like just an oops.

[hung]

I think tracking loot only becomes an issue when we grow past the 25 man mark. Bigger stakes, bigger prizes, means people become more vested. Organization is helpful then.
Our 10 man format has always been less formal, and I don't think we really need it.

That said... if people feel there's a need, it can be revisited. I'll be gone for 3 weeks, but i can hand off the guild roster to someone else if we want to use that as a loot tracking base.

[Reiss]

Just let the dice stand, you won the roll. All this eligibility bullshit is pointless, you should not be afraid about rolling on an upgrade because it will lock you out of a bigger upgrade later in the raid.

<- Bosar btw, who didn't get any loot this week.

[Luke]

The problem is when it is inconsistent; for part of the raid people were worrying about eligibility, so really for fairness the whole raid should run that way. If we are going to do a free for all the whole time, thats cool. If we are going to try and balance loot, thats cool too. But to do it haphazardly is just confusing, and frustrating for folks.

[Daewen]

All this eligibility bullshit is pointless,
<- Bosar btw, who didn't get any loot this week.

Pointless until someone else wins 4-5 things in a week because you lost the rolls, then suddenly it'll be 'unfair'.
We do, in fact, have these Guild Loot Rules for a reason.
They are not pointless, they are not bullshit.

[Reiss]

All this eligibility bullshit is pointless,
<- Bosar btw, who didn't get any loot this week.

Pointless until someone else wins 4-5 things in a week because you lost the rolls, then suddenly it'll be 'unfair'.
We do, in fact, have these Guild Loot Rules for a reason.
They are not pointless, they are not bullshit.

Loot will drop eventually anyways, does it really matter when it happens to drop for you? If you're getting bent out of shape because someone else won a few rolls, then there is something seriously wrong.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again, these eligibility rules are bad because they discourage people from rolling on loot when a better upgrade drops later in the instance.



anyways, I pointed out that I didn't get any loot this week, simply because I did lose rolls, and guess what, I told people to just let the dice stand, even though I was losing to people who already got loot, AND someone complained about possibly getting locked out of loot because they picked up a minor upgrade earlier. It's simply not a big deal if someone gets multiple items, and someone else doesn't get any.

[hung]

As Luke pointed out: its all about consistency. Treat everyone fairly and equally.
What Tony is alluding to is: even if the loot rules are not necessary for you, they may be for someone else. And if they are going to be applied, they get applied to everyone, equally.

But all this is moot in ulduar 10. Most of us raiding there are Naxx 25 geared anyhow. So upgrades are marginal at best.

Moral: raid because you enjoy the company and the accomplishment of downing hard bosses (great job to everyone who worked on General btw ) and don't bicker about loot.

[Camyu]

All this eligibility bullshit is pointless,
<- Bosar btw, who didn't get any loot this week.

Pointless until someone else wins 4-5 things in a week because you lost the rolls, then suddenly it'll be 'unfair'.
We do, in fact, have these Guild Loot Rules for a reason.
They are not pointless, they are not bullshit.

I agree with Daewen this time. Eligibility is not pointless. The minimum base line for eligibility should be mains over alts, and main spec over alt spec.

I, believe it or not, actually won 3 things this week... Two on Tuesday and one on Thrusday. But two things I won I cannot use at the moment, as they are both offspec weapons that no one else could use so kinda got defaulted to me, and even so I have nothing to pair them with to make them useable. And then there was one that I can actually use as main spec and was given priority to roll on Tuesday because up to that point I have not won anything for main spec, and it happened to be a tier shoulder.

We are at a point where we are clearing bosses that drop tier loot. I don't think people should feel inclined to not roll on normal drops so that they can save the roll for a tier drop later in the raid. I think one way to discourage that is by allowing everyone 1 winning roll on a piece of tier gear per day (or week) so everyone starts out even when the 1st piece drops regardless of who claimed normal loot. And perhaps the only way to get more than 1 piece of tier gear for the week is when the 2nd piece drops you happen to be the only class that can use it. We can probably be a little more loose in terms of rules on normal drops and just respect the dice. That way people don't need to feel that they are being forced to save their roll. But then to be fair, if you win the coveted tier pieces, you are expected to contribute to the raid when you can and when your schedule permits. The last thing we want is you win tier pieces and then you disappear and not come back for a month. Obviously, this does not apply to things like vacation (re: hung and jenny in a few weeks). But you know what I mean...

The raid composition changes quite a bit between Tuesdays and Thursdays sometimes. So I think keeping mental daily counts might be easier than the week count. And I mean, if you feel guilty for rolling and winning a bunch of stuff already, then don't roll. But in a 10-man raid, I don't think it's really that big of a deal.

[Reiss]

yes, and I'm saying that we should be consistent in letting the dice determine winners (well, at least within the constraints of main spec over off spec, I think everyone can agree that I, as a boomkin, shouldn't be taking melee DPS leather over a rogue). Eligibility and loot tracking just adds an unnecessary level of complexity to the process, and bogs down the raid.


I'm also not quite sure what you mean when you say that the rules aren't necessary for me, but are necessary for other people... The rules are either necessary, or they're not (hint: they're not). Now, some people may believe that they are necessary because they put too much importance on recieving loot, and get bent out of shape if they don't get a shiny new piece of equipment every single week, or they just don't understand that the items will drop again.