So based on what I've read and heard from picking the brains of people who have Dragon Soul on farm we did a lot of things right in our first kill of this boss.
Splitting the deck into quadrants is definitely the way to go. I don't know the range on the drake adds to well so don't know if having all the members of drake killing team on the same side for the killing of the 1st drake is super important or not, but we definitely need to focus fire 1 drake. Again if position is unimportant and if that was what we were already doing then ignore the previous. I had a lot of things to keep track of so my attention wasn't on the dpsers.
As for the ground adds Hung was correct that only the armored add cleaves, so we should prioritize him over the unarmored add as much as possible so that tanks can stack in the big purple swirly to help mitigate ship damage. Depending on how bad the ship is hurt we may want to finish off ground adds before we burn the last drake since phase 2 starts pretty much when that drake goes down, and tanking boss and adds is rough.
Sappers once we got the hang of dealing with them we never let them get through so kudos to everyone on that front. Ideally, I'll try to slow it and yoink it so that we have the time, but I can't guarantee that every time so it's vital that as soon as that sapper lands everyone is on top of it. I suggest making a macro to it that's tied to any spell you have that has a stun or slow effect.
I.E.
/target twilight sapper
/cast chains of ice
As for phase 2 we pretty much did everything spot on though I'm sure the healers were having a rough time of it as it progressed due to vengeance. Other than that well done all and hopefully we can get some spine attempts next Tuesday.
Cleaning up our Warmaster kill
Moderators: Texaporte, sphie, Pocky
Re: Cleaning up our Warmaster kill
Random musings:
- Phase 1 will give us a hard time with if we're stacked towards melee. I think having at least 3 ranged dps is more or less required at this point. Once burst DPS goes up, it will become a looser restriction. The faster the drakes go down, the less fireballs, the less we need to be spread apart for ship coverage, the more melee we can afford in our composition. Melee DPS will have difficulty putting out sustained dmg as they'll have to run around and soak fire.
- Death Grip is probably the #1 best ability to deal with Sappers (stuns/snares being #2). Frontal knockbacks (typhoon style) would be just as good, but require a dps to be positioned on that side of the ship and probably demand too much re-positioning (and potential of pushing the sapper in the wrong direction 0_0). If we have more than 1 DK, then having a death grip order is probably a good idea.
- I did some research on sapper stealth, and i'm getting conflicting information on whether or not the stealth can be removed at all. The stealth effect is actually area based (from a smoke bomb the add drops when he lands) and not a self buff, I do not believe that dmg/flare/etc will reveal him until after he's exited the smoke zone. Death & decay style zone AOE should still hit him though, and we can pre-trigger a hunter trap in the middle of the ship using another add.
- The 5% raid nerf means it should be possible to single-soak the small purple swirls, though it will still hurt a lot, and soaking it with 2+ is better.
- To Dorian's point: controlling the phase transition will make phase two much cleaner. Phase 2 starts when the last (6th) assault drake goes down. I believe it is accompanied by the "Focus your fire on the armored drake" sound file. Ranged DPS assigned to drakes control this timing. We should probably leave the last drake at 50% until we're down to the last melee add, then push the phase transition.
- Tank positioning: I read it's possible for the tanks to position the melee adds in such a way that they can be cleaved, along with a Drake! Basically tanks position themselves next to the harpoon launchers, with the mobs in between them (so they face away from one another). Downside to this is that tanks probably can't be counted on to do any soaking, which is something we should not be counting on anyway (mob cleave etc). Added bonus: this positioning will make the Mob charges clearer, and always come from a single point. Tanks should never be getting hit by the charge as well.
- All the above is Phase 1 centric, phase 2 is all about burn. We should save hero for the last 30~25%, I think we used it right after chasing off Goriona, but would get more benefit holding it for a little past that.
- Phase 1 will give us a hard time with if we're stacked towards melee. I think having at least 3 ranged dps is more or less required at this point. Once burst DPS goes up, it will become a looser restriction. The faster the drakes go down, the less fireballs, the less we need to be spread apart for ship coverage, the more melee we can afford in our composition. Melee DPS will have difficulty putting out sustained dmg as they'll have to run around and soak fire.
- Death Grip is probably the #1 best ability to deal with Sappers (stuns/snares being #2). Frontal knockbacks (typhoon style) would be just as good, but require a dps to be positioned on that side of the ship and probably demand too much re-positioning (and potential of pushing the sapper in the wrong direction 0_0). If we have more than 1 DK, then having a death grip order is probably a good idea.
- I did some research on sapper stealth, and i'm getting conflicting information on whether or not the stealth can be removed at all. The stealth effect is actually area based (from a smoke bomb the add drops when he lands) and not a self buff, I do not believe that dmg/flare/etc will reveal him until after he's exited the smoke zone. Death & decay style zone AOE should still hit him though, and we can pre-trigger a hunter trap in the middle of the ship using another add.
- The 5% raid nerf means it should be possible to single-soak the small purple swirls, though it will still hurt a lot, and soaking it with 2+ is better.
- To Dorian's point: controlling the phase transition will make phase two much cleaner. Phase 2 starts when the last (6th) assault drake goes down. I believe it is accompanied by the "Focus your fire on the armored drake" sound file. Ranged DPS assigned to drakes control this timing. We should probably leave the last drake at 50% until we're down to the last melee add, then push the phase transition.
- Tank positioning: I read it's possible for the tanks to position the melee adds in such a way that they can be cleaved, along with a Drake! Basically tanks position themselves next to the harpoon launchers, with the mobs in between them (so they face away from one another). Downside to this is that tanks probably can't be counted on to do any soaking, which is something we should not be counting on anyway (mob cleave etc). Added bonus: this positioning will make the Mob charges clearer, and always come from a single point. Tanks should never be getting hit by the charge as well.
- All the above is Phase 1 centric, phase 2 is all about burn. We should save hero for the last 30~25%, I think we used it right after chasing off Goriona, but would get more benefit holding it for a little past that.
Re: Cleaning up our Warmaster kill
i tried AEing the sapper when it landed and that didn't seem to break his stealth. And i don't believe frost nova works on him either...
Re: Cleaning up our Warmaster kill
Yeah based on what I've been reading/hearing Death Grip sapper seems to be the best bet. I'll work on positioning myself so that the sapper is always in line of sight for a yoink away from the door. Because I'm pretty sure I went down to inadvertently turning my back to the mob. We don't need a DG rotation for sapper since the cooldown is short enough to have it up every sapper, the main problem is that if I have to pull two adds off hung I'm short a taunt, so maybe a hunter misdirect would be good in that case. And since we don't seem to have another DK main I'll just try to pay attention to my facing and not go squish.
Re: Cleaning up our Warmaster kill
Some thoughts from last night's attempt:
- we knew it'd be harder with less ranged/more melee, but an even split is the limit. I don't think we can pass phase 1 with less than 3 ranged DPS. As it is, the one time we brought Blackthorn down, ranged was a bit behind on the drakes. Not being able to focus on the drakes myself, I just noticed that the drakes are only attached/vulnerable for a short window. Only suggestion I have would be to consider using a more 'bursty' spec, if you have that option.
- Tanking the 2 vykruls next to each other is definitely the way to go.
- Might be just impression, but I think we were handling the sappers better. Maybe a fringe benefit from having more melee (more stuns/snares?).
- Shadow protection (only available from priests or paladins) is not strictly required.... but it makes a whole lot of difference for just about every fight in DS... It's a big enough factor to warrant bumping mains for alts to get that coverage...
- we knew it'd be harder with less ranged/more melee, but an even split is the limit. I don't think we can pass phase 1 with less than 3 ranged DPS. As it is, the one time we brought Blackthorn down, ranged was a bit behind on the drakes. Not being able to focus on the drakes myself, I just noticed that the drakes are only attached/vulnerable for a short window. Only suggestion I have would be to consider using a more 'bursty' spec, if you have that option.
- Tanking the 2 vykruls next to each other is definitely the way to go.
- Might be just impression, but I think we were handling the sappers better. Maybe a fringe benefit from having more melee (more stuns/snares?).
- Shadow protection (only available from priests or paladins) is not strictly required.... but it makes a whole lot of difference for just about every fight in DS... It's a big enough factor to warrant bumping mains for alts to get that coverage...
Re: Cleaning up our Warmaster kill
So after a bit of thought and talking to Andy I've come to the conclusion that Death Grip is a sometimes food for sappers if we have melee present. When it was all range DGing every add made sense since I always pulled it away from the door. However since we have melee present the yoink means they lose time on target, so I will stick with the chains of ice spam.
Re: Cleaning up our Warmaster kill
Gratz everyone on the 1-shot last night! While we cut it very fine, a kill is a kill.
The spirit of this thread remains valuable however, as there still remains room for clean up.
Thoughts:
- 5 range + 1 melee gives fantastic ship coverage. Even so, we transitioned into phase 2 with only a sliver of health on the ship remaining. I would feel better if the ship had 15~20% life rather than 5%.
- Sapper can still spawn during the phase transition. I think this is a weird timing thing, where we'll see that last sapper spwn some times, others not. Not really a big deal as long as we're on our toes. A good reason to officially have the non-DK tank grab Blackthorn first (Dorian and I have been doing this already, just something to consider if we ever shuffle roles around).
- 3 dps on melee and 3 dps on range (with even dps split) means we kill the ground guys faster than the drakes. I actually think this is ideal, as it means we have a 'cool off' period between phases. Healers should be able to use this period to regen some mana, and we should have perfect fireball coverage since melee/tanks have nothing left to do.
- Phase 2 is where we had some issues, but realistically, that fight will always spiral out of control in the end. I called for hero too early: saving it (and personal DPS CDs) for the last 25% is better. Tanks/healers can also do some pre-organization for raid wide defensive CDs staggering.
The spirit of this thread remains valuable however, as there still remains room for clean up.
Thoughts:
- 5 range + 1 melee gives fantastic ship coverage. Even so, we transitioned into phase 2 with only a sliver of health on the ship remaining. I would feel better if the ship had 15~20% life rather than 5%.
- Sapper can still spawn during the phase transition. I think this is a weird timing thing, where we'll see that last sapper spwn some times, others not. Not really a big deal as long as we're on our toes. A good reason to officially have the non-DK tank grab Blackthorn first (Dorian and I have been doing this already, just something to consider if we ever shuffle roles around).
- 3 dps on melee and 3 dps on range (with even dps split) means we kill the ground guys faster than the drakes. I actually think this is ideal, as it means we have a 'cool off' period between phases. Healers should be able to use this period to regen some mana, and we should have perfect fireball coverage since melee/tanks have nothing left to do.
- Phase 2 is where we had some issues, but realistically, that fight will always spiral out of control in the end. I called for hero too early: saving it (and personal DPS CDs) for the last 25% is better. Tanks/healers can also do some pre-organization for raid wide defensive CDs staggering.
Re: Cleaning up our Warmaster kill
The 3:3 split seems to be the best plan for dealing with adds and drakes, though favoring range when we're able to is still a good idea. I think phase 2 would have gone smoother if we had gone through an explanation before hand, but we really hadn't expected to get there on the first go, so that phase we can clean up with a bit more preparation. Generally the sapper will be my best friend unless there's another DK on the ship. Overall up until the craziness of phase 2 we did a pretty clean job of it, soaking more fire will make things better and me timing vampiric blood a bit better will help some. I think if do it right I can throw it out every time a tank gets the 2nd stack into the 3rd so that will help the healing a bit.