spec and utility: ret paladins & warriors

[hung]

This is with regards to the attack power debuff paladins and warriors can put up on a boss. I know that a number of ret paladins (and prot too i think?) spec into vindication, which gives a 574 AP reduction pretty consistently. But that in some specs, this is done at the cost of getting bubble-sac (utility trade off).

Fury warriors can get improved demo shout, which is equivalent to vindication, but a pain to keep up.
Prot warriors can get improved demo shout, at the cost of threat (specing into it costs us our best threat talents).

My 2 cents: I can keep a 100% demo shout uptime while tanking no problem, but it won't be the improved version (only 410 AP reduction).
Knowing that, would it be worth it to have more paladins go into bubble sac?

[Devinoch]

Bubble-sac is a pretty bad detriment to ret. pallies, imho. The problem is that the timing juggling between Avenging Wrath and bubble, with D-Sac and the time period where you can't bubble OR AW... let's just say the timing is massively tricky and is going to nerf a ret. pally's DPS significantly, as they'll be firing AW a lot less.

~c.

[Texaporte]

You don't need to bubble to hit DSac. It does extra damage to you, yes, but it will not kill you. It says in the (lengthy) tooltip. You'll take a little more damage than the rest of your group, but the raid in general will take 20% less damage, and that means you'll get heals faster.