Schadenfreude Raid Loot Rules [UPDATED 01/04/10]

[Pocky]

Schadenfreude Raid Loot Rules

Objective: What we’re trying to do here is maintain a fair playing field for people to get gear for their characters while balancing that with the ability to progress through new raid content when it is added to the game.

During a given week of raiding (Tuesday to Monday), loot that drops in official guild 25-person raids will be distributed by the following rules:

1. On-spec before off-spec, main before alt (The order is: On-spec main, off-spec main, on-spec alt, off-spec alt, "better than disenchanting it", and "more maelstrom crystals for the GB")
2. "No loot yet" before "has gotten something during this week of raiding"
3. Don't be a dick
4. Share the wealth

Definitions:
A. "Defaulted" item: an item that no-one but one character can use. For example, a wand drops and there is only one wand-using caster in the raid. Defaulted items do not count against a character's loot count. A defaulted item is also one that is assigned to someone because of a specific purpose, i.e. Hit Rating gear to a non-Shadow priest for Mind Control fights.
B. "Free-for-all" item: Items like the 22-slot bag and the Sack of Spoils from Sartharion. Certain other items can be deemed Free-for-all by the Master Looter if they deem it appropriate.

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With dual-spec coming up, please decide a primary spec (called from here on "on-spec") and a secondary spec ("off-spec") for your character. In addition, if you have multiple characters, please decide which one is your main character and which ones are your alts, and let Dom or Richard know. You can change alts if you decide you like one over another, but please keep us up to date. And please don't change your main or on-spec every other week.

Example: My characters are Kohran (hunter), Salessa (warrior), Elynnia (druid), and Yukihana (death knight). My main is Salessa, and her on-spec is Protection, and her off-spec is Fury. My alts are Kohran (Survival/Beast Mastery), Elynnia (Restoration/Balance), and Yukihana (Frost-tanking/Unholy-DPS). Kohran was my original main when I first joined, but I switched Salessa to my main last year.

1. On-spec before off-spec, main before alt: If multiple people are eligible for an item, but one (or more) main characters are of the appropriate spec, those characters will be given first shot at the item. In addition, priority for rolling goes to main characters over alt characters. Alts can only roll on an item when all main characters, both on- and off-spec ones, have passed. The overall order for rolling is: On-Spec Main, Off-Spec Main, On-Spec Alt, Off-Spec Alt.

Example: A piece of protection plate drops. There are seven plate wearing characters in the raid – two protection on-spec (Texaporte and Salessa), two healing on-spec (Autolux and Healbot), two DPS on-spec (Cyriz and Norfolk), and one alt protection on-spec character (Protbot). Of the five non-protection on-spec characters, two of them are protection off-spec (Healbot and Norfolk). So the rolling priorities would be:

1) Texaporte and Salessa are allowed to roll.
2) If both Texaporte and Salessa both pass on the item, then Healbot and Norfolk will be given a chance to roll on it.
3) If Healbot and Norfolk also pass, then Autolux and Cyriz will be given the chance to roll.
4) If Autolux and Cyriz both pass, then Protbot can roll.
5) And if Protbot passes on the roll, the item is now “free-for-all” and anyone else can roll if they want it “just because”. Otherwise, it will be disenchanted.

2. "No loot yet" before "has gotten something this run": During a given raiding period, once you have received loot, you cannot roll again on an item until all other on-spec mains who are eligible have received loot.

Example: Chamomille (shadow priest), Tablebot (mage), and Lisseromen (warlock) are in the same raid. After three bosses, Chamomille and Lisseromen have both received one item. On boss four, another caster item drops. In this case, Tablebot automatically gets priority over Chamomille and Lisseromen. Once Tablebot gets an item by rolling on it, all three casters are now eligible to roll on the next piece of gear to drop.

Please note that if you are eligible to roll on an item, you do not have to pass for a person for whom it would be a bigger upgrade unless you want to.

3 and 4 should be fairly self-explanatory.

Eligibility to roll on an item will be determined using these rules, and finally arbitrated by the Master Looter for the run.

If you have any questions about these rules, please feel free to ask. Thank you.

[Camyu]

Just to be clear, for official 25-man & official 10-man raids, we're keeping separate loot tables, correct?

Also I have come to realized that previously if we won non-weapon or non-gear, such as the 18-slot bag or the bag of emblems from Sartharion, that doesn't preclude us from being able to roll on Naxx/Maly/Vault gear that drop later on during the same raid period, since that we tend do Sartharion first on Tuesday nights...

Having said that, I see a problem in this logic... We usually distribute the bag and the emblems as the last two things among Sartharion's loot. Loot master tends to say that anyone who hasn't received any gear or weapons can now roll on the bag, and then the emblems. And yet, the winners of the bags and emblems can still roll on future Naxx/Maly/Vault loots. That means potentially these two winners can receive multiple loots, whereas the winners of the Sartharion gears and weapons can never roll on the bags and emblems during the same period, which seem kinda unfair.

Therefore I wanna suggest that perhaps the bag and emblems should always be free for all, unless you already have the bag because it's a unique item. And that might extend to future non-gear/weapon loot such as mounts or pets or whatever... What do you guys think?

[Pocky]

Just to be clear, for official 25-man & official 10-man raids, we're keeping separate loot tables, correct?

Also I have come to realized that previously if we won non-weapon or non-gear, such as the 18-slot bag or the bag of emblems from Sartharion, that doesn't preclude us from being able to roll on Naxx/Maly/Vault gear that drop later on during the same raid period, since that we tend do Sartharion first on Tuesday nights...

Having said that, I see a problem in this logic... We usually distribute the bag and the emblems as the last two things among Sartharion's loot. Loot master tends to say that anyone who hasn't received any gear or weapons can now roll on the bag, and then the emblems. And yet, the winners of the bags and emblems can still roll on future Naxx/Maly/Vault loots. That means potentially these two winners can receive multiple loots, whereas the winners of the Sartharion gears and weapons can never roll on the bags and emblems during the same period, which seem kinda unfair.

Therefore I wanna suggest that perhaps the bag and emblems should always be free for all, unless you already have the bag because it's a unique item. And that might extend to future non-gear/weapon loot such as mounts or pets or whatever... What do you guys think?

I will only be tracking 25-person runs.

As for the bags and such, that was fixed, so FFA items can be rolled on by everyone.

[Byron]

Can we please reword, "raid period". I had believed this meant a single raid, a single run, etc. Apparently it really means, "all 10-25 man content until the next Tuesday instance reset". A drastically different definition. I don't think I'm the only one who mis-understood it.

Thanks.

[Pocky]

Can we please reword, "raid period". I had believed this meant a single raid, a single run, etc. Apparently it really means, "all 10-25 man content until the next Tuesday instance reset". A drastically different definition. I don't think I'm the only one who mis-understood it.

Thanks.

That is a bit vague, I'll work on it soon.

It only refers to 25-person content, though, not 10-person.

[Byron]

What are the 10 man loot rules then?

Does 10 man Malygos count as a 10 man, despite being harder then Naxx/OS 25 and yielding better loot?

And is their a particular reason the rules differ?

[Pocky]

What are the 10 man loot rules then?

Does 10 man Malygos count as a 10 man, despite being harder then Naxx/OS 25 and yielding better loot?

And is their a particular reason the rules differ?

On a personal note, I don't track loot for the 10-person runs because I'm often times not there, and they're not put up on the Guild Calendar. These days, 10-person runs are usually handled by the person who puts it together.

The main reason, though, is that while the 25-person runs are happening regularly, 10-person runs aren't as common right now. If this changes, we can reassess things.

But for my sanity's sake, I'm only tracking 25-person runs.

[Daewen]

Though partly work boredom, I have decided to use my company's product to hopefully try and clarify the loot process, and get feedback from the guild if this is an accurate and clear representation. I had to write out the loot rules in a more explicit form, which then automagically becomes the flowchart diagram. Both are included below.

For clarification, the term "eligible" refers to a player that has not yet received loot, or has received less loot than their peers. "Secondary" refers to the peers who have received loot.

• The loot master determines what class/specs are appropriate.
  If the loot master has on-spec main players, the loot master gives the dice to the eligible player.
  Otherwise, if the loot master has off-spec main players, the loot master gives the dice to the eligible player.
  Otherwise, if the loot master has on-spec alt players, the loot master gives the dice to the eligible player.
  Otherwise, if the loot master has off-spec alt players, the loot master gives the dice to the eligible player.
  Otherwise, the loot master allows any player to roll.
  
  If the eligible player chooses to pass, then the eligible player gives the dice to the secondary player. Otherwise, the eligible player gives a roll to the loot master.
  if the secondary player chooses to pass, then the secondary player gives the dice to the loot master. The loot master considers the next category eligible player. Otherwise, the secondary player gives a roll to the loot master.
  
  If the loot master determines a winner, the loot master awards the item. Otherwise, the loot master shards the item.

Loot Rules.jpg (129.58 KiB) Viewed 587 times

[Camyu]

Tony, your flowchart seems to consider "eligible player" as a single player but should actually be a group of "eligible players". If all eligible players pass, then the secondary player(s) get(s) the dice, etc.

[Daewen]

Yeah, don't mind the slightly imprecise language. I'm just a programmer, it took me all day to write the plain text to come out correctly with the tools. See, it doesn't actually understand singular and plurals, but it will treat them as different actors if you mix the two. It also doesn't always clear up references using "they" "them" "he" "she" etc. But anyway, you get the idea, right? I can fix the terminology and generate a new flowchart jpg later on. But mostly I hope there's other feedback on this particular (and peculiar) representation of our loot rules.