nailbat.us

Before you go any further, please take a deep breath and clear any negative emotions you may be feeling about the loot rules and how they pertain to you.

I am NOT suggesting that we go with a merit-based system. I am NOT suggesting any changes to the current system.

What I am asking is this: those of you who are against the idea of a merit-based system (i.e. getting priority on items if you are at raids more often than another person and have not gotten anything as of late, but NOT a DKP system) - why are you against it?

I want to understand this more so that IF the rules need to be tweaked again, I can avoid any further conflicts.

And to explain for newer folks (and maybe older folks):

The current rules were drafted in whole by me, after discussion with a few people with experience in the matter (in our guild and out), and a lot of thinking. This idea was conceived by me many months before WOTLK came out.

And please - no flames.

I am also the person that keeps track of loot (currently), while Dom (or whoever is raid leader at the time, occasionally me) calls for rolls. I am continuing to try to find ways to streamline the process while keeping things as fair as possible for everyone.

First off I say raid attempts since you'd need to be tracking all fights, not just kills to get a realistic percentage attendance to base merit/eligibility off of.

As it stands currently, someone that attends a third of the raid attempts, currently has less than a third of the potential in drops to have a chance at rolling on.
With priority looting assigned on attendance (merit based), that would be reduced by an additional third...so upgrades for them being perceived as eligible only rolling against people that have received 3 drops in the raiding period (or 2 drops if they show up half the time, you get the idea). For someone that shows up a 3rd of the time or less frequently, they'll get upgrades only if it's going to be vendored & nobody is present to shard the drop since that would be assigned a higher merit based off attendance.

Merit based is a close step in the direction of what's essentially a zero-sum DKP system where all a persons accumulated DKP is basically spent each time a drop is won, and then placing that guildy into the category of having a drop vs not for priority assigning. It just seems like it's making everything far more complex than it needs to be. That's more of a system for hard core raiders that don't really know each other and don't have much invested in the guild and hop around so a system is in place for retention and loyalty. We're fortunate enough to be in a position (I think) to not need to worry about those sorts of things since we have plenty of ties that bind us...remember that whole other thread about how everyone knows each other?

Something that must be remembered: /roll is merit based.

The more often you raid, the more bosses die on your watch, the more loot is pried from their still warm corpses, the more chances to /roll, the more items they will win with /roll

That said as pointed out it's merit based against bosses downed, not raid involvement. On the whole it averages out reasonably however. -Early raiders get first (and more) rolls, thus more loot earlier...if only because they are the first ones actually there.

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When reinventing the wheel you must remember to consider what incentives the new design creates. Are those incentives aligned with the good of the guild and players? Or does the design create incentives that help some over others, or quite possibly help no one and run strictly counter-productive?

The current loot system has strong incentives that:

• A) Encourages upgrades be left to rot (disenchanted).
  B) Encourages reduced raid participation.
  C) Encourages gaming the system and being a dick.

Neither of these incentives are aligned with anyone's goals or values, least of all the guild's. I realize these are unintended side effects, but that doesn't make them any less of a real problem.

Ideally a system would offer incentives for taking actions which are positive for the guild and players. I understand a significant motivation behind this design was to put a ridged formula around the "don't be a dick" clause, but frankly it has backfired because the incentives actually reward people for being a dick rather then punish them.

The next best option is a system which is incentive neutral.