nailbat.us

Okay, so I've been playing a Pally and DK tank extensively since Cata, and I have a good feel on how those guys work. So for my own reference and everyone else's, I'm going to see how the tanks work, and how they can work best together.

Paladin
Style: Strong AoE, high raid utility, high self- and raid-heals when necessary, very smooth incoming physical damage from high shield block.
AoE ability: (strong) Hammer of the Righteous every 3 seconds, (strong, mana-hungry) Consecration every 30, Holy Wrath (weak, aoe stun on elementals/dragonkin/undead) every 15, Avenger's Shield every ??? (talents reset the cooldown)
Taunts: 2, 1 directly targeted, 1 indirectly targeted and affecting 3 guys at a time if they're all attacking the same target.
Utility: instant AoE hot, heal amount based on distance (used almost exclusively on melee during periods of high damage; heals for something like 10k, more with AW up). Hand of Freedom, Hand of Salvation, Hand of Protection, Divine Guardian, Hand of Sacrifice. Word of Glory instead of SoR every 9 seconds provides a mana-free heal for 20k+, more if cast on self.
Cooldowns: Divine Shield (3? minute CD, talented), Divine Protection (20% reduction, 1 minute CD), Ardent Defender (3 minute CD, 20% reduction, death protection), Guardian of Ancient Kings (50% reduction, 3 minute CD talented)
Interrupts: Avenger's Shield, Hammer of Justice, on the GCD.
Weakness: See Interrupts. Lower number of cooldowns compared to other classes, at least in terms of cooldowns they can use on themselves.

Death Knight
Style: Healthy AoE, strong and consistent ability to cooldown, spikier damage but better able to react to incoming damage. Huge self-heal every time they have FU open, often worth 50k+ depending on mastery and how much damage they've taken in the last 5 seconds (it's weird).
AoE ability: Death and Decay every 30 seconds, Blood Boil every blood rune, 3 targets at a time with Heart Strike, Pestilence. Decent but requires startup time.
Taunts: 2*. One directly targeted, one forcing an attack and going "yoink!", one based on whether AotD will taunt.
Utility: Rune Tap can heal raid for 5% of max health if glyphed.
Cooldowns: Bone Shield (20% reduction on incoming damage), Army of the Dead (I forget), Icebound Fortitude (50% reduction), Anti-Magic Shell (magic absorption, 45S cooldown), Vampiric Blood (+health, +healing received), Rune Tap (10% heal to self, 5% to raid if glyphed), Death Strike (heals self for minimum of 7% of health and leaves behind a shield based on mastery and heal amount), Dancing Rune Weapon (+parry, 90s cooldown)
Interrupts: Strangulate (ranged, on GCD), Mind Freeze (often resource-free if specced into Endless Winter), Death Grip if target is death grippable.
Weakness: Higher amount of incoming damage due to lack of shield to mitigate another 55%+ of incoming blows.

Druid

Warrior

What I want to come out of this thread is a compilation of how you can change your strategy based around each tank, once you understand how they work.

For example: if the DK tank leads with Diseases, you don't want to go crazy right away. Wait for a Heart Strike or Rune Strike to put the DK way into the lead. A good Paladin tank will start the fight with, essentially, 200k threat if he does his pull for threat. However, if he wants to go into survival mode, he can pump out 4k HPS on himself at the cost of threat. Warriors need a few more seconds to get rolling, but thanks to Vigilance they can stack up AP super quickly and start face smashing their boss. Druid tanks shouldn't be put into a kick rotation except in an emergency, since Skull Bash doesn't lock out a school of magic, instead choosing to make spells cost more for some reason. Paladins take the most spell damage from things like breaths and such because they don't have any mechanics like AMS or Spell Reflect or even an interrupts of their own. etc. etc.

Et cetera, et cetera. Learn how to get along with your fellow tanks and the raids will get much smoother as we remember who does what!

Warrior

Style: Jack-of-all-trades, master of none. The "original" tanks from classic WoW. Reasonable AoE, reasonable cooldowns, fairly spikey damage. The most mobile of the tanks, with Charge, Intercept, Intervene, and Heroic Leap, warriors also have the most stuns (2) of all the tanks. Threat-wise, we have the slowest AoE start-up of all the tanks.

AoE abilities: Thunder Clap (slows enemy attacks by 20% for 30 seconds, 6 second cooldown; is NOT a DoT by itself), can work in conjunction with Rend (with the talent Blood and Thunder, it can be spread to all targets hit with Thunder Clap and refreshed every time they are hit with Thunder Clap again); Shockwave (high damage, stuns for 4 seconds, 20 second cooldown); Cleave (hits 2 targets (3 when it is glyphed), 3 second cooldown)

Taunts: Taunt (single-target, 8 second cooldown) and Challenging Shout (everything in a 10 yard range turn on the warrior for 6 seconds, 3 minute cooldown)

Utility: Sunder Armor/Devastate reduces armor by 4% per application, stacks to 3 applications, the butter to Shield Slam's bread; Demoralizing Shout reduces the physical damage output of nearby enemies by 10% for 30 seconds; Battle Shout can provide 549 strength and agility for 2 minutes (4 minutes glyphed); Commanding Shout can provide 584 stamina to people in range for 2 minutes (again, 4 minutes glyphed); Shattering Throw reduces the target's armor by 20% and removes invulnerabilities, 5 minute cooldown; Heroic Throw can silence the target for 3 seconds when talented; Disarm removes the target's main hand and ranged weapons for 10 seconds.

Cooldowns: Shield Block (formerly known as "Carpel Tunnel Shield") increases Shield Block chance by 25% for 10 seconds with a 60 second cooldown (the talent Shield Mastery can reduce this to 30 seconds); Last Stand temporarily grants 30% of the warrior's maximum health for 20 seconds (3 minute cooldown); Shield Wall reduces incoming damage by 40% for 12 seconds (5 minute cooldown; the glyph increases the cooldown by 2 minutes, but increases the damage reduction by 20%, for a total of 60%; the talent Shield Mastery can reduce the cooldown by 3 minutes)

Interrupts: Shield Bash (12 second cooldown), Shockwave and Concussive Blow (only if the mob is stunable), Heroic Throw (only if the mob is silenceable)

Weaknesses: Only real ways to self-heal are Enraged Regeneration (restores 30% of total health over 10 seconds, requires an Enrage, 3-minute cooldown) and Victory Rush (using the talent Impending Victory, only after the target is lower than 20%, and on a proc); damage-intake isn't as smooth as paladins or druids, and lack the numerous cooldowns of death knights. All warrior damage is physical, which means any targets that are physical-immune (thankfully rare) are impossible for a warrior to hurt without enchants/on-use items.

Random notes: Spell Reflect only works on single-target abilities, and rarely from bosses.

--

For an AoE pull, the preferred method is:
Charge in to primary mob (1 GCD)
Hit the mob with Rend (1 GCD)
Hit Thunder Clap to get all of the mobs (1 GCD)
Maneuver slightly and then hit Shockwave (remember, it's a frontal cone) to get all of the mobs (1 GCD)
A Cleave can be in there somewhere, if the warrior has enough rage. However, for a fresh pull, the chances that they will have that much rage is low.
After that, hit Cleave, Thunder Clap, and Shockwave as often as possible.

Any questions?

So a couple things about DK Tanks, that Dom didn't mention.

1) Bone Shield is a 20% reduction, but it's only for 3 hits. Since the refresh on it is 1 min, I pretty much use it whenever it's available, unless I know I'm about to get beat in the face, i.e. Throngus Dual Blades.
2) The Damage reduction is your dodge + parry percentage for Army of the Dead while you are channeling it. Also the ghouls from this as well as your raise dead can be used as a healing cooldown. Death Pact which is on a 2 minute cooldown heals you for 25% of max health for 40 rune power and eating your ghoul.
3) Dancing Rune Weapon is threat generator (if glyphed) when it's up in addition to the parry benefit you do 50% more threat and all of your spells get copied though only for half damage. In a lot of boss fights I actually pop this early to build the threat lead quickly then hold on to it as a defensive cooldown.
4) Lichborne (2 minute cooldown) if you spec into it makes for another useful way to get health quickly. For 10 seconds you count as undead and can therefore heal yourself with death coil (instant cast 40 rune power), combined with the minor rune that refunds 20 rune power when you use death coil to heal, you can easily bring yourself up to full and save the healers a bit of mana.
5) Lastly for utility there is the buff from Horn of Winter agi/str it's got a 2 minute duration (3 if glyphed).

Overall, I definitely see myself as being squishier than the other tank classes, but in a pinch can be heal self sufficient for a few GCD's.

Sorry if my sentences are horrible grammatically I'm a bit tired.

I guess I'll fill in the Druid box:

Style: Simplistic, but gets the job done. Very similar to a warrior, but without a lot of the bells and whistles. (? higher health than other tanking classes?). We apply a large amount of our threat through bleeds and debuff that makes bleeds do more damage(mangle like warriors trauma). I'd say we're better at 1/2 target tanking than full on AoE, but not horrible at AoE.

AoE: Main: Swipe - 360 degree melee range cleave. Hits all targets and has a 6s cooldown. Thrash: Applies a 6s bleed to all targets in melee range and has a 6s cooldown. Glyphed Maul: Hits main target for full damage and another target in melee range for 50% damage.

Taunts: Same as Warrior: Growl=Taunt 1 target in 30 yards 8s cd Challenging Roar=Challenging Shout all enemies within 10 yards attack you for 6s 3m cd. (Can be glyphed to a 2.5m cd with a minor glyph).

Utility: Little - 2 charges, 1 longer range (Feral Charge) which gives a haste buff when used and a shorter ranged (Skull Bash) which interrupts. We apply a debuff which makes bleeds do extra damage(mangle) and a debuff which increases criticals(pulverize). Demoralizing Roar=Demoralizing Shout decreases physical damage by 10% for 30s to everybody in melee range. Standard Specials(Maul/Mangle) inflict Infected Wounds that decreases movement by 50% and attacks speed by 20%. Leader of the Pack (5% crit, + mana/health on crit).

Cooldowns: barkskin: 1) decreases damage taken by 20% for 12s 1m cd 2) Survival Instincts decreases damage by 50% for 12s 3m cd 3) frenzied regen increases health by 30% and turns 1rage= 0.3% max health OR if glyphed doesn't heal, but increases healing effects by 30%

Interrupts: 1) Skull Bash 13yd range (charge) 10s cd and locks spell casting for 5s. 2) bash stuns for 5s with a 50s cd Melee range. All numbers are talented.

Passive Buffs: Due to talents, bears take a flat 12% less damage and 6% reduction to spell damage.

Funky Mechanics: Savage Defense(mastery): Every time we crit, we have a 50% chance to proc Savage Defense. If we do, we will absorb 35+N% of our AP off the next physical damage hit. N being based on our mastery stat. This is our answer to shield block.

Weakness: Only way to heal ourselves is with frenzied regen... and that is usually glyphed away (which I have done). Rage in the beginning of a large AoE pull is very limited, so gaining solid aggro on a large number of mobs can be dicey. Limited range pulling (only feral faerie fire)

I was in a random the other day, and the warrior tank almost always first pulled with his gun. Fired one shot at one mob first to get its attention, and then immediately charge in. I noticed that because of that 1st shot, the other mobs already started converging. I don't know how much that really helped (or not helped) but it might allow slightly quicker of gathering of mobs for AoE shockwave...

Also I hear that one of the glyphs allow you to spread your Rend to multiple targets now... I think it's the glyph of thunderclap (or was it shockwave...?)

I assume if you want to pull a caster onto the warrior, you want to open with an heroic throw to the caster, and then charge a non caster. At least that's how I did it in the old LK days. Does heroic throw still work the same in Cata?

Camyu wrote:Also I hear that one of the glyphs allow you to spread your Rend to multiple targets now... I think it's the glyph of thunderclap (or was it shockwave...?)

Talent. Blood and Thunder.

I assume if you want to pull a caster onto the warrior, you want to open with an heroic throw to the caster, and then charge a non caster. At least that's how I did it in the old LK days. Does heroic throw still work the same in Cata?

It does if you've talented Gag Order.

So I looked up a couple of bear tank guides and they agree/disagree on some things, but agree on others. I really like this break down. It is a bit more wordy than our summaries above, but it covers the bears advantages and disadvantages. Some of them are a little more cosmetic than others, but it's still a good list.

The bear's advantages

* Excellent, even overpowered, single-target threat.
* Traditionally a high-damage tank. This is all to the better in Cataclysm, given how well bear mitigation and avoidance scale with offensive stats (i.e., agility's effect on Vengeance, Savage Defense, and dodge).
* In an interesting reversal of our usual fortunes, we are now the tank with the highest passive magic damage reduction and the highest average avoidance (at least in tier 11).
* The only tank with a cooldown usable while stunned or incapacitated (Barkskin).
* Immune to Polymorph, Seduce, and Disarm (more accurately, the worst effect of Disarm).
* Able to supply Faerie Fire, Mangle's bleed debuff, a debuff to boss/mob attack speed (Infected Wounds), a debuff to boss/mob melee damage (Demoralizing Roar), and consistent self-healing in addition to a raid critical strike buff (Leader of the Pack).
* When not required to tank, can shift to cat to generate more damage. I will grant that this is a less compelling advantage in the age of dual spec.
* As with all druids, can supply Tranquility, Innervate, and a battle rez to the raid. However, bears are generally the least able to do so at any given time, and the feral Innervate has the approximate effect that a horse tranquilizer would have on Godzilla.

The bear's disadvantages

* Due to the bear's lopsided reliance on Mangle and (when permissible) Maul for threat, even one or two misses in the early part of a fight can get hairy. Someone on EJ observed recently that it seems like everything in the bear arsenal is either Mangle or exists solely to make Mangle hit harder, and there's some truth to that.
* Blizzard's efforts to nerf the other half of the feral tree often exercise an unfortunate impact on bears. The upcoming patch 4.0.6 is a particularly infuriating example.
* Non-set melee leather in raid content is almost always designed to match rogue tier sets, and we're usually consigned to hunter-themed polearms for weapons. At best, a feral druid in caster form looks visually schizophrenic; at worst, we look like we hired Liberace as a personal shopper -- a very sad state of affairs for people with fond memories of the Wildfury Greatstaff and Stanchion of Primal Instinct.
* Static form design. The druid is not the class to play if you enjoy seeing what Liberace bought for you in action.
* Bears are the only tank without a ranged silence. While not usually an issue in raids, it can make pulling and positioning mob packs in 5-mans a messy business with impatient or uncooperative DPS.
* Early bear leveling is, to be charitable, a nightmare. There is no AoE threat skill until you get a heavily-nerfed Swipe at level 36, and everything in your arsenal with the exception of Demoralizing Roar is a cooldown until Lacerate at level 66.
* No burst AoE threat outside of a cooldown (Berserk) and no Fear break as of patch 4.0.6.
* Having to compete with DPS for tanking gear can be a huge pain in the ass. While plate tanking gear, jewelry, and trinkets are usually distinguishable by the presence of defensive stats that DPS don't want, you will find yourself rolling against a legion of cats, rogues, hunters, and enhancement shaman in 5-mans and raids.
* The spec still feels much clumsier these days than I would like. This is entirely a matter of personal opinion, but as someone who's played both, the bear still feels too much like the warrior tank's idiot stepchild. The bear is also rarely singled out for praise or even commentary on the Blizzard Tanking forums.

http://wow.joystiq.com/2011/01/18/shift ... nking-101/
http://www.ferociousinspiration.net/201 ... guide.html

The main thing I've been doing wrong is mis-gearing. Both these guides agree: agility agility agility. Don't be lured into taking shared tanking pieces with strength even if they have better tank secondary stats. Agility is worth well more even with worse tanking secondary stats. Especially now that you can reforge one of them. I'll swap some gear out and see how things change.