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Pros of extending:

- More practice on Putricide = down Putricide while we still have the full Tuesday team, especially the ones who have to turn into pumpkins at 10-11.
- After Putricide, we can immediately start work on Blood Queen Lana'thel


Cons of extending:

- 6 fewer bosses of gear (16 epics, 2 T10 tokens)
- Less rep (who's not exalted yet?)

Which would you prefer?

As long as we use our A-team'ers early, extending could get us the win and 2 tokens and new loots we've never seen before.

But, as we've stated from looking at the past few weeks of logs: Gear is not the blocking factor, it's well-geared people under 5k dps overall. No piece of loot is going to double someone's dps, but that's exactly what we need from the low end. We might do as well with the time on practice wipes as scrutinizing people and fixing things.

If we start fresh though I'm bringing my DK alt. =)

I agree...the increase in dps/healing from the pieces "lost" is not significant (especially considering if we down him - we will get 2 tokens anyway). We already have a 10% buff which is insane if you equate that to gear...probably equivalent of adding a full tier to every piece of gear you have...

If we don't extend...it is unlikely we will have enough attempts at him to realistically have a chance to down him especially considering (at least based upon last week) we are not rushing to get to him with all the alt swapping, gem cutting and enchanting happening....sorry for sounding frustrated (I'm sure we all are at this point when you get a boss to 1%), but i was last week....

To mirror what was previously said, if we are starting fresh...I would be included in the group that would just rather bring their alt and then switch to mains for the second wing..if that was tolerable to the rest of the raid.

The 5-minute pauses for gemming and enchanting were definitely a buzz kill. I'd like to cut that from this week at the very least.

The counterargument is that 1% Putricide means that any bit helps... in theory. I'd like to hear more opinions on this one.

Texaporte wrote:The 5-minute pauses for gemming and enchanting were definitely a buzz kill. I'd like to cut that from this week at the very least.

The counterargument is that 1% Putricide means that any bit helps... in theory. I'd like to hear more opinions on this one.

Whatever 'little bit' to improve 1% is not really an efficient use of time compared to people being 20-50% under the dps they should be. Let's fix the big problems.

I'm fine either way, but if we start fresh I would like to bring an alt for the first wing for gear and rep.

Adam

My opinion:

We should start at 6 or 7. Alts welcome. This covers the numerous mains and alts still needing gear from the first bosses and people wanting faction. Optimally, we'd stop just before fester / rot. That way, once official raid time at 8 starts, alts are out and mains are in for work on the citadel.

IMO, this is a good compromise on people wanting gear / faction and people wanting progression, not to mention that it allows some of us not on Pacific time a higher amount of time to participate.

Another compromise proposal that's interesting to me: We can do an alt 25 through Gunship or so and extend that each week, so that we cut the hour and a half leading to Saurfang for the main Tuesday raid. I don't know if the logistics could possibly work out, but compromise is a tough thing when we have this much difference of opinion.

This is my thought as it stands right now, and people can feel free to chime in with other suggestions. (edit: like Brad did! Thanks)

This week, we start with the Sart weekly. Then we extend IC25 and work on Putricide for a while. at the one hour point, if we haven't beaten Putricide yet, we take a break with the Blood Princes, because we know we can beat them minimal wiping. Then we go back to work on Putricide.

This gives us a morale boost for beating Putricide, as well as 3 hours of awake, focused raiders.

Does this make sense? Am I being too wishy-washy and need to be more firm? I dunno.

The forums is a good place to voice ideas and strats. But i don't think its a good place to get opinion polls.

We have a small percentage (maybe 25%?) of guildies that post regularly, and I assume a higher percentage of readership. But my point is, there's a lot of raiders that don't post, maybe don't even read this.

If you want to make democratic decisions (and actually care about everyone's input): do something like ready-checking in raid, yes/no. (with the caveat of checking no if you mean yes, to make sure people are paying attention). That's the simplest and most organized way to get everyone's input.

The real question is: should we be making decisions in a democratic way?

My 2 cents on raiding situation (for what its worth):
Yes for extending the 25s on Tues.

No on alts during main raid night.
Make Thursday an alt/learning run.
If Tues raid comp is bad/short on people/whatever, break up into 10 mans.

Seems to me that raid attendance has been dropping (could be just my perception. I have been dividing my time with SC2 and FF13). Alt-swapping is just going to slow down progression raiding. It will hurt Thrs attendance more. It sucks having no upgrades left to look forward to for your toon, I know (caly has like 3 upgrades left in ICC25). But ask yourself, how is you bringing an alt to raid helping progression?

I think it's muddying the waters to talk about 4 different problems in 1 thread:

• When to start raid, if we even have 25 people who could be on any earlier than 8pm.
• Clearing part with alts, then working on progression with mains.
• How best to solve the issues that keep us from beating progression fights.
• Shuffling around between fights we can clear, and ones that we should but havn't.

Usually, when this many things start getting thrown on the table around 1 issue, it's indicative of panic-based decision making. It's not rational, it's not even clearly defining the problem trying to be solved. The topic on the thread reads Extending vs. Starting Fresh, but mainly it's about Putricide, and what it takes to beat him.

• Starting earlier will let us spend more time working on it, but usually after the first hour of practice we're consistently on phase 3 fairly cleanly. After that, having three hours or three weeks to work on him isn't the biggest problem- we have lots of logs saying so. However, I am in favor of some kind of survey to see if we need a better raid time for everyone- separate thread please.
• Starting fresh just so people can bring alts (myself guilty here too) helps a bit with the burnout, and with just wanting to have fun when we play. But Putricide is still a cockblock once we get there. In order to make raid go smoothly without wasting everyone's time, mains/alts should be at the instance, repaired, reagent'd, and ready to go.
• If we're going to start early, spend 30 minutes navel-gazing and scrutinizing dps and fix our problem elephant in the room. Fix that, and everything else is cake.
• If we're avoiding burnout and going for morale boosting successes, just get those all done first. Leaving the consolation prize frost badge for last doesn't really make it any better that we got Putricide to 1% once.