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Chamomile wrote:If you get rid of the priority system then you're going to get hard feelings between players.

For example: Member A has nearly a full set of really good equipment but still needs some slots filled. Member B has a couple good pieces but is mostly outfitted with instance blues and purples. During a raid, Member B rolls on and wins two upgrades, then later in that same raid an item desired by both Member A and Member B drops. Member A and Member B both roll and Member B wins. Member A sees no other desirable drops for the remainder of the raid.

I don't see the problem, all the items that dropped are being put to good use. This is of course, one of those situations where the "Don't be a dick" rule would come into play, and it would be nice if Member B realized that this is the only thing Member A wants, and pass to them. As long as people aren't coming to raids solely to get loot, making sure that as much gear as possible gets used should be our main priority.

In the interest of simply speeding the process up I really liked one of the suggestions on page 1 which doesn't change any actual rules: Start by asking who's interested in the item, rather then who's eligible. We do spend a considerable amount of time sorting out which of the next priority is eligible simply to find out none of them are even interested.

Another suggestion made I think by Andy that would help speed things up, but also change the rules slightly, is to combine the above with a simple "choice between two replies: want" and "default". Want says "I'll /roll on this if I'm allowed to". Default says, "I'll take it and find a use for it if none else do. It may be a tiny upgrade, side grade, special use, off spec, whatever". Winning something with a "want" adds +1 to your loot penalty, while getting something by stated default does not (even if defaulters end up /rolling against each other). The idea here is partly to speed the process up, but also address to some degree the biggest flaw in any priority based system: Letting actual upgrades rot or get disenchanted rather then miss out on the prized drops later. Letting upgrades get disenchanted doesn't help either individuals, the guild at large, or help reduce loot drama.

Daewen wrote:I personally have had the opinion that if it has spell power on it, let all casters roll, and those that know it's great for them will roll and those that don't like the piece won't. But then you get all the same arguments above.

I agree, class restrictions on drops is pretty silly, when it's anything more than: DPS casters, healers, physical DPS and tanks. These are pretty obvious distinctions, and can essentially be figured out by the presence, or absence, of just one stat. Hit is DPS caster, MP5 is generally healer, Defense/Parry/Dodge/Block for tanks, no defense/dodge/parry/block for physical DPS.

Reiss wrote:

Daewen wrote:I personally have had the opinion that if it has spell power on it, let all casters roll, and those that know it's great for them will roll and those that don't like the piece won't. But then you get all the same arguments above.

I agree, class restrictions on drops is pretty silly, when it's anything more than: DPS casters, healers, physical DPS and tanks. These are pretty obvious distinctions, and can essentially be figured out by the presence, or absence, of just one stat. Hit is DPS caster, MP5 is generally healer, Defense/Parry/Dodge/Block for tanks, no defense/dodge/parry/block for physical DPS.

Sadly it's not so simple anymore, at least for casters. Consider:
Cowl of Innocent Delight
vs
Faerlina's Madness
It's reasonably clear these were intended as DPS and Healer versions of the same basic item. The +hit version however, is the better Healer piece as it has significantly more Spirit on it (at the cost of straight MP5). But what healer cares about mana regen in Wrath, we mostly all end fights with more then half mana w/o trying? That extra spirit however, is more spell power. When gimping potions Bliz way over compensated with mana regen...they are addressing it in 3.1, but 3.1 isn't here yet.

+hit also, only matters until you're capped (which isn't hard to do). After that it's a 100% wasted stat and items w/o +hit become much more valuable to DPS casters. And of course everyone likes +crit now.

So...
Almost no one likes +haste
Almost no one likes straight +mp5
Almost everyone likes +crit
Almost everyone likes +spirit
And DPS only care about +hit upto a fixed (easy) value, then they care about not having wasted +hit.

Honestly wrath gear is a bit of a mess when it comes to casters. There's a lot of it that was clearly designed with BC needs in mind (massive mp5 on healing gear for example) and never updated for Wrath needs. This makes a lot of the best in slot gear appear at first glance to be designed for someone else.

Reiss wrote:

Daewen wrote:I personally have had the opinion that if it has spell power on it, let all casters roll, and those that know it's great for them will roll and those that don't like the piece won't. But then you get all the same arguments above.

I agree, class restrictions on drops is pretty silly, when it's anything more than: DPS casters, healers, physical DPS and tanks. These are pretty obvious distinctions, and can essentially be figured out by the presence, or absence, of just one stat. Hit is DPS caster, MP5 is generally healer, Defense/Parry/Dodge/Block for tanks, no defense/dodge/parry/block for physical DPS.

Completely off topic, but who are you in-game? ^_^;;

I'm Salessa, one of the off-tanks (warrior). I just like to know who I'm talking to.

Greg mentioned a warrior friend was coming over, might you be him? ^_^

Reiss is Ian Reiss, a.k.a IanR a.k.a. Ian2 a.k.a. Bosar.

Werehamster wrote:Reiss is Ian Reiss, a.k.a IanR a.k.a. Ian2 a.k.a. Bosar.

Ahh, gotcha.

That's a lot of 'aka's.

Since KT drops level 226 loot in 25-man and level 213 loot in 10-man, whereas the rest of the mobs drop 213 in 25-man and 200 in 10-man. Clearly the KT drops are better, and it is understandable for people wanting to "save their roll", and letting potential upgrades from other mobs go to waste. And with attendance not being counted at the moment, my suggestion is that your other mob rolls don't carry over into the KT loot since it's a different level, essentially making KT's loot FFA for those who can use the loot.

While I can understand the thought of not wanting people to pass on upgrades, I don't know that letting people cherry-pick K'T for loot is the best solution.

I think doing regular loot rules for the regular 4 wings but then doing attendance + loot rules for Sapphiron and KT might be a good idea.