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Anyhow, right now we have begun the process of prepping new people with Naxx runs, and gearing up alts and things. There has never been a better time to come back. If we can just get 2 or 3 of our old raiders back, we could be at 25 men again in no time!

Also, with patch 3.2 dropping, it will pretty easy to get yourself t8 geared. Sure the "A" team will be super-geared, but last night we ran with the A- or maybe B+ team and pounded the snot out of some of the bosses in Ulduar. It was great fun, and a good challenge (Especially those damn lightning trash giant twins). I really hope some (or all) of you guys come back!

Byron wrote:People wanted to, but the A Team had already pulled away the top characters/classes. The first 10 man group was optimized at the expense of the 2nd, to the point that it wasn't viable (gear, class, spec, etc). Mostly people looked at the random assortment left over and knew there wasn't a chance in hell it would work. The 20 or so raiders could have been split into two viable groups, but none in the A Team was interested in even talking about it...they were too busy zoning into Ulduar. *Poof* 10 man guild. Duh!

Hate to disappoint, but I don't think there is an 'A Team' any more, not that there ever was one in the first place. Nowadays it's 'the people that show up' for the most part.

That whole 'A Team' crap really makes me angry. Yes, there were people that were better geared at the time. Those people were running at least three instances daily if not more. They worked hard to get the best gear available to them and were always available for the 25 man Naxx runs.

When Ulduar came out, they were there for the scheduled 25 man runs as well, even with the multiple wipes while learning. Those people decided that since we were doing 25 man raids as a guild then they could try the easier 10 man instance during an unscheduled time period to learn the encounters and to continue trying their best for both themselves and the guild.

Said group of people playing in their own free time on nights when nothing was scheduled were suddenly flagged as the 'A Team' and a clique who weren't concerned with the rest of the guild. Never mind that these same people were still back for the scheduled runs even though other members starting being unable to attend.

Seems that some people decided, "Obviously the reason things aren't going my way is because the 'A Team' is screwing everyone else", and not because people had life changing events, grew tired with the game, didn't want to learn the encounters, or whatever reasons anyone had to stop attending. Stop blaming some group of people that were playing the game and realize that there just may be an off chance that other factors could have possibly lead to the guild going from 25 person turnouts to 10.

Regardless, a good number of the 'A Team' people have stopped playing for whatever reasons, so continuing to bring it up isn't helping anyone.

In short, please stop stirring up old issues in a potentially inflammatory way. Trolling only causes more strife and hardship for the people who are still trying to play and enjoy themselves.

I think the group of players that Chamomile was referring to (some of them not really playing in the guild anymore) were the old A team. The group of players I believe Luke was referring to was the new "core" group that got formed after the former A team "disbanded". I don't think Luke was referring to the old A Team, so Brad, please calm down

Camyu wrote:I think the group of players that Chamomile was referring to (some of them not really playing in the guild anymore) were the old A team. The group of players I believe Luke was referring to was the new "core" group that got formed after the former A team "disbanded". I don't think Luke was referring to the old A Team, so Brad, please calm down

He wasn't replying to Luke, if you look at his quote he was replying to Byron.

As Brad said, the "A team" was the group that was planning on doing 10 man ulduar on off nights in addition to 25 man ulduar on regular raid nights. If anything, the A team was the group that was most dedicated to bettering the guild, by spending more time learning encounters.

I understand that some people don't like a challenge; that they don't like wiping multiple times trying to hammer out a workable strategy; that they're just interested in coming for loot. I'm not interested in catering to those people anyways. I hate to say this, but I get the impression that those are the people who didn't show up for ulduar 25, and in essence caused the problem.


Sure, we might have been able to field 2 ulduar 10 raids initially, but nobody even made an effort to get a second group going, to shuffle raid groups into 2 workable configurations. Part (most?) of that is because people don't use the forums often enough, and apparently just assumed someone else would bring it up. Obviously, I didn't bring it up, because I wasn't really aware that people wanted a second raid group, and I was already in the first raid group.

Moral of this little story? Don't assume people are going to read your mind and know what you want, be vocal, and make ample use of the forums. Also, tell other guildies who don't use the forums to get in the habit of using them, especially if they want to raid.

kyo wrote:He wasn't replying to Luke, if you look at his quote he was replying to Byron.

Oh... duh. I totally wasn't reading the quote part XD Sorry...

Reiss wrote:I hate to say this, but I get the impression that those are the people who didn't show up for ulduar 25.

I think the people who "didn't show up for ulduar 25" was, as Ian was referring to, the people who was there for the loot/didn't wanna learn by wiping/etc... Not referring to the old A Team. Just thought I'd try to help clarify... Cuz I had to read that twice to make sure I understood it.

The old A team was great. And the one time that people might have misunderstood them, was, if I recall correctly, Ulduar 25 couldn't be formed due to lack of 25 people, and so we wanted to form a Ulduar 10 on Tuesday/Thursday. But "A Team" was committed already to do 10-man on another day, thats why the Ulduar 10 didn't happen either that one time. It was just that one time, and it wasn't their fault. But I think they were misunderstood because emotions were flying and/or people didn't get the facts right

Well, it does look like we may be reaching the point where we can field 2 runs, or possibly a 25 man again soon, so that will be fun. Recently our raids have been pretty inclusive (perhaps from necessity) but also quite fun. I hope we can keep that sort of attitude going... I really think we need someone to take command of the organization and balance of our future runs, once we get to the point where we regularly have too many people for a 10 man, but too few for a 25 or two 10 mans. No one should feel left out, or unwanted. I don't have a specific proposal, I just don't want anyone to have hurt feelings, or to get discouraged. I think our goal should be to make sure that everyone in the guild gets a chance to raid at least every other week, if they make a sincere effort to show up. Again I don't know how we would pull it off, but my gut tells me that if I were the one who couldn't get into a raid two weeks in a row, I'd be pretty darned upset; heck if it were feasible I would say everyone should get to go every week.

I dunno. Anyone have any thoughts as to how we can make sure everyone gets to participate?

Camyu wrote:

Reiss wrote:I hate to say this, but I get the impression that those are the people who didn't show up for ulduar 25.

I think the people who "didn't show up for ulduar 25" was, as Ian was referring to, the people who was there for the loot/didn't wanna learn by wiping/etc... Not referring to the old A Team. Just thought I'd try to help clarify... Cuz I had to read that twice to make sure I understood it.

Fair enough, I rarely review my posts after I've typed them up, I'm very train of thought when it comes to writing. And yes, I'm definitely not saying that the A team didn't want to do ulduar 25. Perhaps I should have added a line break to emphasize that the second half of that paragraph is seperate. In fact, let me go edit it.

Luke wrote:Well, it does look like we may be reaching the point where we can field 2 runs, or possibly a 25 man again soon, so that will be fun. Recently our raids have been pretty inclusive (perhaps from necessity) but also quite fun. I hope we can keep that sort of attitude going... I really think we need someone to take command of the organization and balance of our future runs, once we get to the point where we regularly have too many people for a 10 man, but too few for a 25 or two 10 mans. No one should feel left out, or unwanted. I don't have a specific proposal, I just don't want anyone to have hurt feelings, or to get discouraged. I think our goal should be to make sure that everyone in the guild gets a chance to raid at least every other week, if they make a sincere effort to show up. Again I don't know how we would pull it off, but my gut tells me that if I were the one who couldn't get into a raid two weeks in a row, I'd be pretty darned upset; heck if it were feasible I would say everyone should get to go every week.

I dunno. Anyone have any thoughts as to how we can make sure everyone gets to participate?

have you looked at my post in the raid forums yet? Because that's exactly what I'm trying to do. I know that we have multiple people with lvl 80 alts who would like to/be willing to raid more than 2 nights a week. Obviously, we want to fill raids with mains first, but I think it's definitely possible for us to have 2 10 man raids on different nights, even if we only have 16(maybe even less?) active raiders.