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The issue with having a roll off for spots in a raid, especially while learning fights, is that you really want to have your best players on new/difficult encounters.

Bringing people who aren't at the top of their game is a losing strategy. Admittedly, I know, that we have at least 10 excellent players, so rolling off might not be an issue. However, I'm sure there are also players with subpar talent specs, subpar rotations, subpar situational awareness, or who are just significantly undergeared who would be next to useless on learning encounters.

I guess a good question would be: do we have enough good players to field 2 10 man raids on different nights (including alts)? Also, would we have enough tanks and healers (again, among mains and alts)? This of course means that we need to make sure that if we are going to do a second set of raid nights and fill it with even 1 alt or newer player, we need to make sure they are sufficiently geared (which is admittedly just making sure that they aren't wearing blues any more). If we do this, people really would need to commit to making it on both raid nights, because the other group would obviously be locked out of that raid.

Tuorr wrote:It is a bit of a moot point for me now given conflicts on Tues/Thurs, but I admit had got me to the point of not wanting to bother signing up and getting my hopes up and then having to sit out again.

This.

It's basically why I deactivated my account. The guild dropped to 10 man runs pretty quick and the clique feeling came back in force. I felt dejected. It was more then a little bit of a downer.

Reiss wrote:Bringing people who aren't at the top of their game is a losing strategy. Admittedly, I know, that we have at least 10 excellent players, so rolling off might not be an issue. However, I'm sure there are also players with subpar talent specs, subpar rotations, subpar situational awareness, or who are just significantly undergeared who would be next to useless on learning encounters.

Yikes, I guess that means I was one of those sub-par players then...

But seriously, the challenge of this approach is that the best players continue to be the first with the best gear, which eventually gets the raid to the point where they are on farm and then not interesting for some of the rest of us. So in short, you are nurturing a 10man guild at the exclusion of everyone else. That is fine if that is what you want, but then when it comes time for a raid and a couple of the select 10 don't show for some reason, you are now left with a situation where you either don't raid, or you have to raid with peeps that were "left behind" with sub-par gear, who are completely unfamiliar with fights which means you have to spend time explaining, and/or are rusty... that is if they even care about raiding anymore anyway that is.

Tuorr wrote:Yikes, I guess that means I was one of those sub-par players then...

I didn't say that ;_;

Reiss wrote:I didn't say that ;_;

I know, I was just teasing. But of course, having sat out so many times in a row started to make me wonder... sadly paladin healers are not the best thing to have around when learning new instances where multiple peeps are taking damage. I would be the first to admit that the raid is better off with priest/druid healers, which just adds to my overall frustration.

Would it be so hard for blizz to give paladins a group heal and/or instant HoTs?!?

Tuorr wrote:

Reiss wrote:I didn't say that ;_;

I know, I was just teasing. But of course, having sat out so many times in a row started to make me wonder... sadly paladin healers are not the best thing to have around when learning new instances where multiple peeps are taking damage. I would be the first to admit that the raid is better off with priest/druid healers, which just adds to my overall frustration.

Would it be so hard for blizz to give paladins a group heal and/or instant HoTs?!?

It would be nice! I think the real problem is that Werehamster and Hatta are just so good that we don't need 3 healers for progression. Blame them!

I think the problem is that we had 25 people, then around 5 or so got scared off or bored, which left us with 20 and no one wanted to do a second raid so some more people got bored which left us with 18 so some people transfered off or changed guilds which left us with 13 so some people had to sit out and stopped raiding which left us with 10.

Sadly, this process does not work in reverse.

Werehamster wrote:I think the problem is that we had 25 people, then around 5 or so got scared off or bored, which left us with 20 and no one wanted to do a second raid so some more people got bored which left us with 18 so some people transfered off or changed guilds which left us with 13 so some people had to sit out and stopped raiding which left us with 10.

Sadly, this process does not work in reverse.

nobody tried to organize a second raid ;_;

also, people didn't (don't?) frequent the forums often enough, and I think there are still some guildies who are unaware of them.

Werehamster wrote:I think the problem is that we had 25 people, then around 5 or so got scared off or bored, which left us with 20 and no one wanted to do a second raid so some more people got bored which left us with 18 so some people transfered off or changed guilds which left us with 13 so some people had to sit out and stopped raiding which left us with 10.
Sadly, this process does not work in reverse.

The highlighted part isn't exactly true. People wanted to, but the A Team had already pulled away the top characters/classes. The first 10 man group was optimized at the expense of the 2nd, to the point that it wasn't viable (gear, class, spec, etc). Mostly people looked at the random assortment left over and knew there wasn't a chance in hell it would work. The 20 or so raiders could have been split into two viable groups, but none in the A Team was interested in even talking about it...they were too busy zoning into Ulduar. *Poof* 10 man guild. Duh!

I get to go fairly often, and I am not really that good. Maybe a little better than some people, but clearly not better than most.