I was just trying to figure out a way to get Naxx done more reliably.
Sometimes people write things and they come out wrong. That happens. No one's trying to diss anyone and we all like raiding together for the most part, so there's really no guild drama here. Let's just get back to doing our thing. Seems like some people want to finish Naxx before trying Sarth and others would prefer trying both. So let's just leave it as it is for now and hopefully in a week or two we'll be downing both pretty squarely. Who knows? Maybe even this week.
Sounds reasonable to me. And I think some of the reason why we've been having trouble finishing Naxx is lack of numbers. We don't always have 25 - sometimes 20 or 22. And yes, some of us make dumb mistakes and we should all be aware of that and try to keep getting better. But my bet is that once we get 25 pretty consistently, we'll finish things in good time.
About Naxx: it should not be a surprise that there'll be trouble when tackling 25 man content with 20 players. That's going in with 25% missing. that's like trying to do 10 man content with 7~8 people. How krazy (with a k!) over geared were we before we could pull that off in Karazhan (T4)? If i recall correctly, we were all decked out in badge gear (T5). Which means we'll probably be able to confortably run H. Naxx with 20 guildies when we're decked out in Ulduar gear (i'm overegaterating a bit to make a point, but i also like reminescing about good ol' kara).
About the drama: I've been giving this a lot of thought. I feel bad that Kev's thread got highjacked by it, but lets face it, there are some fundamental differences in loot philosophy. I say fundamental because it seems to be the root reason behind all these discussions. I think part of the problem is the view of loot as personal property vs. guild property.
Here's my philosophy:
Personal loot: gear that you have farmed, bought, grinded rep for, crafted, or obtained in a PUG. This is loot you have personally worked for and earned.
Guild loot: loot assigned to a guilded character durring a guild run. This is loot the guild has worked for and earned.
Please allow me to clarify. As a member of the guild, sometimes loot will be allocated to our personal character, other times it will be assigned to another guildy. But that perticular piece of loot should be viewed as a guild upgrade, not a personal upgrade. In that regard, every piece of loot that upgrades an on-spec guildy should be viewed with equal cheer, whether you get it or someone else does.
I know this is hard sometimes (hell, its hard EVERY time you loose a roll for a piece of gear you've been lusting over), but that is the philosophy behind the guild's loot alocation system. In theory, we do not raid for the loot our personal characters will get, we raid for the loot the guild will get. I say in theory because i know that deep down, we all want to be decked out in the shinyest of purples >:)
Its a philosophy. Its an ideal. It doesn't always work. But it is something worth aspiring to.
Kind of hard to organize thoughts about this, since there seems to be three or four discussions going on in this thread. Part of it is scheduling, part of it is philosophy, part of it is policy, part of it is flaming because it's fun.
I'd like to get Naxx25 completed each week. I'd like to do progression stuff as well, but I'd rather do progression stuff in the knowledge that we've gotten all the easy upgrades we can. I'd LOVE a chance to get Malygos10 or even Malygos25 down, but I'd rather be doing that after we've cleared naxx25 for the week. There is plenty of gear going to off-spec in Naxx, but the gear from the Thaddius, and from the frostwyrm lair, is stuff that we haven't seen often enough. While Anub'Rhekan's gear might go towards Devinoch's tanking set, or my healing set, the stuff from Sapphiron and Kel'Thuzad will be going towards making progression easier. If that's the bit we're missing each week, we're doing progression without doing what we can to make progression easier, which is not the best way to do progression.
I'd vote for starting with Naxx on tuesday. If we start Naxx at 8, we can easily get three wings down, leaving one wing and KT for thursday, which, ideally, will give us some number of hours to progress. That way, progression doesn't interfere with making people happy, but progression will still get worked on, making other people happy.
Naxx it is - I got a good amount of feedback that Sart+2 was fun, but if it's costing us 226 loot for nothing but repair bills, then let's keep doing Naxx until we get it right, then we can go back and slap down Sart+2.
