Loot Rule Addendum

[Pocky]

This idea is to help people who end up getting nothing at the end of a raid day, due to the random number generator being unkind, without assigning an item to them arbitrarily.

On a given raid day, every raid member who is there for at least 2/3 of the run (So for a four hour day, 2 hours and 40 minutes) earns one point at the end of the raid day.

When someone obtains an item that isn't Default or Free-For-All, one point is deducted from their score.

The point range for everyone goes from 5 to -5. It can never go higher than 5, or lower than -5. This will be tracked by Richard (and someone else in case of his absence).

Whomever has the highest score has first priority on an item, within their group. (a person with a score of 5 still can't roll on an item that they normally wouldn't be able to)

So:

Texaporte and Salessa are rolling on a shield.
Tex has a score of 3, Sal has a score of 2.
Tex gets first crack at the item.
Tex decides she wants it, does her roll, gets the item.
Tex's score is now 2.
Later, a tank helmet drops. Again, Tex and Sal are eligible. Both roll, and Tex wins. Tex's score is now 1.
At the end of the day, everyone gets a point.
So now Tex is at 2, and Sal is at 3 for the next raid day.
For the next tank-y item that drops, Sal would get first priority for rolling or passing.

--

Thoughts?

[Norfolk]

I'm a little confused, but then again I just started raiding again after my break since ZA raids, so maybe it's just me...but:

Does this mean getting rid of the 1 item per raid normal eligibility in order to promote people rolling on items for upgrades more frequently?
Or is this just going to be an additional layer of data tracking to see who's eligible for rolling on drops in the first place?

[hung]

my vote is to keep things simple (well, as simple as possible). Tracking points is getting dangerously close to DKPs, something i'm not entirely confortable with. That said, I understand that with guild growth, comes change. Is the current loot allocation system causing problems?

In defense of the status quo: the current method of giving priority to folks that have not yet recieved anything is designed to make sure that everyone gets something. Equating points to raid-time only serves to penalize folks that can't make the 8 o'clock start time, or who get sub-ed in (bench warmers lets call them). As we have grown past the 25 raiders mark, bench-warmers are a reality to consider. We now have more willing raiders than we do raid slots.

As was covered in the original loot allocation system discussion: Schaden tries to allocate loot evenly, not based on 'merit' (in quotes as merit can be measured in inumerable ways).

[Daewen]

Whenever I mention our loot rules, I like to keep it simple by shortening it to, "spread the wealth, and don't be a dick." To reiterate the point of this new suggestion: it is to help people who didn't get something at all during a previous week raid cycle. In other words, "Hey, so-and-so didn't get anything last week, so stop being a loot-whore and pass to them."

However, I disagree with the 11-point scale (-5 to 5), because really this tracks attendance and it's something we realized last year would be bad for us as a casual guild. It would in effect penalize people who take a break from raiding to do RL things, some of which can't be scheduled (e.g. "baby woke up, someone take my spot.") For another case, it lets people game the system; I could just pass for 4 weeks straight, and then save my 5 to get exactly what I want when it appears, and bounce between 4 and 5 for the rest of the year, and along with half the rest of the raid that comes and goes week to week, hog all the prime drops from the people who aren't there all week.

My recommendation would be to chop it down to 1, maybe 2 points tops. So it's either 0 (you got something last raid you came to), 1 (you didn't get something last raid), or 2 (the dice have failed you for 2+ raids now). Mainly, it just needs the spirit of "spread the wealth" there, so that someone jipped last week can get something this week. But it can't over-penalize the people who only raid half the week or barely make it to one in three raids. These people are still our friends through Dom, and I for one am more than happy to give them something in spite of not seeing them in raid for over a month.

Now, I do want to emphasize my first point: some people need to stop being a dick, whoring for loot, arguing who's eligible for what, and start being gracious towards the guildies that aren't direct friends/relatives, get people out of blues & greens, and move on with the dang raid. The loot will keep dropping, and sooner than later it will fall into your bags anyway.

[Dengeki]

I would like to propose one minor tweak: You only get the +1 if you actually rolled on an item(s) that raid and lost the roll(s).

[Camyu]

Is this official part of our loot rules now? Or is it just an idea? Will it be implemented tomorrow, next raid period, or when?

I would like to propose one minor tweak: You only get the +1 if you actually rolled on an item(s) that raid and lost the roll(s).

But what if all the drops are downgrades or sidegrades so far, or say you have set bonus already and don't want to break it? I wouldn't want to roll on those items, because it does me no good if I get them. Should I be penalized by not getting the +1 simply I have better gear than what was dropped?

[Dengeki]

But what if all the drops are downgrades or sidegrades so far, or say you have set bonus already and don't want to break it? I wouldn't want to roll on those items, because it does me no good if I get them. Should I be penalized by not getting the +1 simply I have better gear than what was dropped?

You aren't being penalized, you are just not getting help to counter your bad luck (other than that nothing that benefits you drops). The base state should be +0. If you are so well geared up that nothing thats an upgrade for you drops, then more power to you but it should not mean you should necessarily get priority on the next week's raid.

[hung]

one last quick point about guild size. If we have more than 25 raiders (allowing for benchwarmers), and spread the loot equally through them, then that means less loot per person.
Rich has been very good at keeping the books and sharing that info. If you look at last week, every raider got on average 2 pieces (some got 3+, some got 0), but there were 29 raiders. If we allow for more overall raiders, the average number of pieces will go down (since we're not necessarilly downing more bosses: we're almost at full clears now right?)

[charline]

I like the whole "share the wealth, don't be a dick" idea Tony mentioned earlier. I feel that this point system will only complicate and frustrate the looting situation.

Since most of the guildies know each other, sharing and being kind should be an easy thing to do. Perhaps communicating about how much of an upgrade a certain piece is to a player might help with distributing loot. For examples, all casters and talk with each other to see who would benefit more from getting a certain piece of gear. Yes this will elongate run times because loot distribution will take a bit longer, but honestly, I'd take longer raid runs over loot drama any day.

[Camyu]

You aren't being penalized, you are just not getting help to counter your bad luck (other than that nothing that benefits you drops). The base state should be +0. If you are so well geared up that nothing thats an upgrade for you drops, then more power to you but it should not mean you should necessarily get priority on the next week's raid.

So say if I attended every day of the raid but have to pass of all the gear that I'm eligible because I have better gear. Using Dengeki's proposed minor tweak, I would have stayed at state +0. Now let's say finally a piece of upgrade drops for me. Now I'm at a disadvantage for being at state +0, even though I've attended every day, because someone happens to be at state +1 or higher, and they get the item. In this case, I would never be able to get anything. How is it fair then? Why am I even raiding if I'll never be able to get just the 1 thing I need?

Also, will the points carry from each raid period to the next, or does it get cleared once Tuesday comes along? Or maybe will X points expire if you don't use them for Y days...?

In any case, not sure if a rigid point system is gonna work for us just yet.